Monday, 10 May 2010

How differently England and Scotland voted [Cât de diferit au votat Anglia şi Scoţia]

It is not for me to explain here what a ‘hung parliament’ is, as long as so many specialists have been doing this since the historical UK Elections of 2010 of last Thursday.

I only like to draw attention to how severely split the vote was, and to how the Tories appear to be ‘forbidden’ in Scotland.

The fact that the Scots (as well as people of Northern Ireland and Wales) have so different preferences than the English should be worrisome.
Few other countries offer similar examples, and I would note the Ukrainian presidential elections (January 2010) and the Iraqi parlamentary elections (March 2010).
These are both rather disfunctional democracies, and as a ‘fan of Britain’, I’d certainly not want to see the British democracy take that rather secessionist path.

Therefore, I dare asking here: is such a split vote the sign that the union between England and Scotland is about to crack? Do the 2010 Elections boost the chances of an independent Scotland?

[For all the posts on this blog go to/Pentru toate postările de pe acest blog mergi la: Contents/Cuprins]


Gregor said...

Hi Bogdan
Christ is Risen!

To answer your concluding question, I think that you asked the most pertinent question on your blog a few months ago. I don't think voting patterns are as important as whether the bankers decide that the debt/bonds etc and all the other stuff we are 'rich' with amount to anything or not.

Secondly, whilst the map of England looks pretty unambiguous, it is worth noting that many densely populated industrial regions in England voted Labour and if we get PR then it is likely that a 'rainbow coalition could narrowly topple the Tories even without the SNP.

I guess it depends on who our bankers are working for: Germany, Brussels, America, England... ironically enough I don't think that Scottish independence is primarily a matter that will be decided by the Scottish electorate.

It is also worth noting that Scotland has long been a kind of protectorate of England, for better and worse. Scotland didn't suffer the violence of the 1980s or the same extreme capitalism. The English have known that we might secede which would be fine if they didn't harbour imperial ambitions.

However, whilst the SNP are seen as 'anti-British' in my own view it is the modern English who are the most 'anti-British' people in Britain.

From early to late 20th Century Britain, we had a culture of gentle patriotism, dry humour, modesty, politeness. WWII formed modern Britain in some senses and simultaneously gave the Brits a dislike of war, that apart from our almost compulsory contribution to the Korean war (and the misguided, foolish Suez crisis) made us a very peaceful country. Now Britain is becoming a crass, infantile, consumerist society which marches off to fight for any cause the Americans want us to. The Scots (and SNP) are at least more sceptical about whether we should go down this path.

Alas, I fear it is inevitable, but independence may buy Scotland some time.

Lastly, whilst the SNP are seen as a 'left wing' party their chief demographic is traditional Tory voters. I suspect they are unimpressed with the neo-liberal fanaticism of the Tory mainstream and find the SNP are at least a patriotic and (by Brit standards) pro-life party.

BTW: any thoughts on those Brits who want to arrest the Pope? I know you are no fan of the Vatican, but I suspect they want to exalt in the strength of the British state rather than acting out of any compassion for child abuse victims.

Hope your talks are going well.

MunteanUK said...

@ Gregor

Indeed He is Risen!

I thank you for this 'instructive' comment, which really adds a lot to what were some simple questions of mine.

Here's what I'd have to reply:

[1] I'm afraid you are completely right to assume that bankers will eventually decide whether Scotland and England will eventually split, not the electorate.

The Czechs and Slovaks were tricked into believing they will be better off on separate paths, the peoples of Yugoslavia were helped to hate and slain each other.

When it comes to secessionist movements, they are one of the clearest examples of to what extent democracy is a hoax.


[2] Thanks for drawing my attention to the fact that the SNP won in constituencies where the Tories were once favourites.

As I once wrote before on this blog, that Alex Salmond appears to be a very interesting politician, so unlike other Brit leaders.

I'd surely like to have a chat with him or even interview him.

The only problem is that few people are interested in Scotland's political life in Romania, and it's very unlikely that he'll give an interview for a... blog :-)


[3] I'm aware of the fact that Labour was elected in many industrial areas (the banks of river Clyde, Newcastle, Manchester + most of London), but I really don't understand how people can be so blind and not understand where T. Bliar & G. Clown have taken Britain :-(

The vote distribution in the UK resembles very much the French presidential elections of 2007.

95% of big cities voted for the Left (La Gauche), but traditional France (communes & little towns) chose Sarkozy.

Don't you think the same thing happened in the UK?


[4] I'm not a fan of any Pope (not that I have anything particularly against Pope Benedict), but I must agree with you that the outrageous proposal of those atheists only proves how fanatical they have become.

They keep accusing the Church, Christians in general, Christ Himself of being fanatical, however, their aggressivity resembles that of Stalinist atheists.

I'd have a lot to comment on this issue but, as long as I don't have the time, I am recommending you an article about this 'war against Christianity' waged in the UK:

Nota bene: You still have a free and diverse media in the UK! That's one thing I like about your country!


[5] Last, but not least, I also have some additional questions, and I'd be grateful if you found the time to give me some answers.

a) Aren't you afraid that, after the 'euro crisis', a big 'sterling crisis' could hit Britain?

b) What are the latest news about the referendum in Scotland? Will it be held this year or not?

c) Do you think that, now that 'pacifist Clegg' will be part of the UK Cabinet, this could offer any guarantees that Britain won't keep fighting America's wars?

d) How could you explain the fact that the LibDems were victorious in the Scottish Highlands?

Gregor said...

Hi Bogdan

As for question 3, I feel wary of comparing Sarkozy and the French 'right' to the Brit 'right'. I don't think th Tory-Lib Dem coalition have any patriotic, pro-Christian or traditionalist values. In a strange sense I think that the SNP has more in common with Sarkozy's party than Cameron has.

As for your last question, I don't think that a referendum has been planned in the near future, but I think your next question is the all important one. If there is a Sterling Crisis then Scotland may seek independence. Being honest, the more I read about banks and economics the more I feel in the dark. But it all depends on whether the bankers want Britain to continue or not.

I also don't think Clegg is a pacifist; I'm certain he supported the wars in Afghanistan and Kosovo. Even with Iraq, he was silent about Bliar's dossier. Incidentally, in all the election our media seems to have utterly lost interest in Bliar and his dossier.

With the Lib Dems, it is important to remember that Britain is a monarchy and we elect a parliament and ultimately a Prime Minister rather than a President. Whilst I think the Windors are Masons, I still prefer monarchy to Presidencies. Danny Alexander is a pretty good consitituency MP, who helped with my passport.

As for voting Labour, sadly democracy is generally about voting negatively. I suspect that the Tories will be more in the pockets of the bankers and the USA.

MunteanUK said...

@ Gregor

[1] You may be right not to find many resemblances between the French Right & British Right, but I really don't know why you consider France's UMP 'Christian' or 'traditionalist' :-(

They may not be as 'secular' as the Tories, yet they aren't very close to true Christian (Catholic in France's case) values.

Neither are the German Christian Democrats (CDU) really 'Christian' anymore...


[2] With or without a referendum, the Scottish independence question is not 'settled' yet.

Anyway, when I was travelling throughout Scotland it was rather a 'dormant' question (like the secession of Quebec), not such a hot issue, like the problems in today's Belgium.

Did anything change? Is 'independence' really an issue in Scotland these days?


[3] Finally, I've got a 'naughty' question: in whose pockets do you think Britain will be safer?

Do you prefer the pockets of Washington (+ New York bankers) or those of Brussels? Or do you think that there's no difference, and they are all the same (NWO artisans)?

Gregor said...

Hi Bogdan

Perhaps you are right about Sarkozy's coalition, but at least Sarkozy has put in the odd good word for Christianity and is said to attend mass. Also his government is banning chadors and burkas. Whether or not you think the state should have the right to tell people what to wear, no Brit politican would dare to even criticise Muslim women for wearing these hideous and unfriendly face masks. I've even heard that some Muslim women have been suing British people for telling them they cannot wear these garments in certain occupations (such as primary school teaching).

You are right about Independence being a dormant issue, but we will see what the banks decide about Britain and our economy. They might fund the SNP and bring about shock therapy in Britain or they might allow Britain an easy time and independence would stagnate.

As for whether we are better off under Europe or America, I'd say the EU. At least the EU has a basic regard for poor people, their central powers (Germany and France) have good education systems that would not let anyone as stupid as Bush or McCain near power and I think the Europeans are less volatile in their outlook.

Of course it is not quite as simple as that, Europe has a dismal record for civil liberties (though Britain is very bad in this regard) and an anti-Christian outlook as well as a complete disregard for unborn children (though America is little different in practice) but overall I think it is inevitable that Britain will be amalgamated into another power block.